Monday, January 21, 2013

How In God's Name Did We Survive The Past Four Years?

Here's a handy guide to nearly all the conspiracy theories that have been peddled about the president. Bet you didn't know he's been on the moon...


clif said...

Cause there is still more adults in the USA than gun nut teatard extremists.

and the country is starting to listen to the adults not the far right extremists, with their 30 year old failed extreme agenda.

free0352 said...

You don't require "dot connecting" with Obama. His policies aren't "theories." He puts them out and stands behind them.

And they are totally fucking insane. This is easily the most evil President in the history of North America.

jim marquis said...

How do you define "evil", Free?

Giving millions more people access to healthcare?

Getting us out of Iraq and Afghanistan?

Saving a giant chunk of the U.S. auto industry and all the industries and vendors associated with it?

Getting rid of the antiquated, completely unfair DADT policy?

Initiating reasonable gun ownership ideas?

Doubling the stock market numbers in four years?

Implementing badly needed oversight of the giant banks that almost destroyed our economy?

free0352 said...

This President has viciously attacked the 1st, 2nd, 4th, and 10th amenment. He has gone after seperation of powers and the congressional power of the Congress and even sought to limit the power of the Supreme Court. He's out of control.

As for what you mentioned, he just sent MORE troops to Afghanistan and Iraq and drew us into more conflicts in that region. The unemployment rate is higher than when he took office, while the national debt and defacits have exploded even as this President seeks to spend without Congress's permission. He's signed orders that allow him to "detain" anyone, anywhere, forever, and he's used that power so much he makes Dick Chaney look like a civil rights advocate. And dispite this, he's done a dismal job of defending America.

Yeah, he's the worst President in 100 years and your party will pay for it in 2014. You will lose the Senate.

T. Paine said...

JM: How do you define "evil", Free? Giving millions more people access to healthcare? -
TP: Yeah, my healthcare costs have doubled in the last four years under Obama’s tenure. They skyrocketed last year after that piece of human debris “fixed” health care. I went to put $3500 into my medical spending account for this year for my family and Obamacare has made it where we can only put in $2500 at most. He wants to be able to tax that additional money that belong TO ME! So much for helping the middle class. And of course if it hurts the middle class, it will REALLY hurt the poor.

JM: Getting us out of Iraq and Afghanistan?
TP: Still there, as well as leading from behind in violation of the war powers act without congressional approval in Libya. Meanwhile Assad kills tens of thousands of his people and Ahmadinejad is placing the finishing touches on Iran’s nuclear weapons program.

JM: Saving a giant chunk of the U.S. auto industry and all the industries and vendors associated with it?
TP: Bullshit! He chose winners and losers in the free market system. The UAW received all sorts of goodies while bondholders for GM and Chrysler were put at the end of the line in violation of the law AGAIN. It was nothing more than supporter payback. If GM and Chrysler had gone through bankruptcy like any other company, they could have shed their untenable union contracts and started fresh with a chance to make it without billions of tax payer dollars.

JM: Getting rid of the antiquated, completely unfair DADT policy?
TP: Yeah, because we should try out our social engineering experiments with the military, especially for those in stressful combat arenas. Brilliant…

JM: Initiating reasonable gun ownership ideas?
TP: Yep, because we all know that guns kill people and not the flipping idiot nihilistic men-boys that this progressive morally relativistic culture has created.

JM: Doubling the stock market numbers in four years?
TP: Yeah, well, we shall see how well that does as we continue to print money and discuss taking over 401K accounts.

JM: Implementing badly needed oversight of the giant banks that almost destroyed our economy?
TP: And then appointing Goldman Sachs tax cheat Tim Geithner as Secretary of the Treasury…
Seems to me you need to come up with some actual accomplishments, Jim. So far, Obama makes Carter look like a genius and the second coming of George Washington by comparison. Free is right. Obama is evil because he KNOWS precisely what he is doing with his “fundamentally transforming America”. But that is okay as long as we keep getting free stuff, huh?

clif said...

This President has viciously attacked the 1st, 2nd, 4th, and 10th amenment.


free0352 said...

Again Cliff dazzles us with his breath taking debate skills. If you are a chimp that is.

clif said...

No freebee, just pointing out how easily YOU LIE.

There is no debating a liar, because he lies.

Your statement is a blatant lie.

No debate needed.

Snave said...

"Obama is evil because he KNOWS precisely what he is doing with his “fundamentally transforming America”."

TP, has your healthcare cost doubled because Obama didn't do anything to help reign in its ever-increasing cost? Seems that when he has tried to do that he has gotten resistance from the people on your side of the aisle. The insurance industry is reform-resistant, as far as I can tell, and with nothing done to curb the rising costs, it wouldn't take long before only the wealthy could afford health care. Sure, that's fine for those (like you, maybe?) who view access to health care as something that must be earned, but I don't view it that way. Costs went up under previous administrations too... this is nothing new.

Social engineering? Encouraging people to accept human differences is now social engineering?

Obviously, guns don't kill people. But you're blaming the left for the increase in the number of these shootings we're seeing? How come? Moral relativism?

You saying Obama is "evil" is your opinion; there is nothing factual about it. "Evil" is a relative term, one which I think someone who rails against relativism maybe shouldn't use. Sorry, but especially when it is used in such an absolutist manner in attempts to define things that maybe aren't well understood. If you understand your own side of the story but don't take time to try and understand the other side, it can become easy to explain it away through convenient methods such as using terms like "moral relativism" when making blanket generalizations about the other guys.

"Piece of human debris"... ? Really?

Looks like J. really touched a nerve or two this time...

free0352 said...

Obama has half the country terrified. There's your sign he's out of control. Maybe thats why enough guns have been sold to outfit the chinese army twice over. That isn't a random statement either. Thats really how many have been sold.

clif said...

Obama has half the country terrified.

Another freebee extreme exaggeration.


Must be a lot of wusses if they are that terrified.

T. Paine said...

Snave, let me start off by saying that I do appreciate your comments and viewpoints. I sincerely and truly do. You are one of the few progressives that argue your points effectively and without resorting to juvenile tactics. While we seldom agree, you always are the genesis of more thoughtful reflection for me. You have my respect, if not my agreement accordingly, sir.

That said, Obamacare did nothing to reign in healthcare costs. Indeed the implementation of it is already causing businesses to pass on costs to consumers. The disincentives in the legislation are such that it makes many existing doctors consider retirement, not accepting new medicare/Medicaid patients, or leaving their practices. It discourages bright people from wanting to become doctors. When you add 30 million more people to the insurance rolls and then end up reducing the number of providers available to care for them, simple supply and demand economics will dictate that fewer service providers with greater demand for services will necessarily mean costs go up. Obama wasn’t concerned about costs. He was concerned about expanding government control incrementally through this legislation. While costs have been going up for years, they are now doing so exponentially under Obamacare and it isn’t even fully implemented yet. If this law is so great, how come there are already myriads of exemptions granted to certain well-connected businesses? How come congress exempted themselves?

As for moral relativism, it is the left that has largely been responsible for decrying the moral foundation of this country and its history as found in traditional Judeo-Christian religions. When everything is okay and nothing should be judged just because “I don’t like it”, the results will be that fewer and fewer things are off limits. We end up more focused only on ourselves and our own material and hedonistic needs and desires. We become far more coarse and unconcerned with our neighbors, families, and strangers. If there no longer exists an objective standard of morality, than many kids/people will indeed foster that nihilistic belief in nothing but themselves. This is how sad and tortured souls turn to violence and murder with these mass killings. They are angry and want everyone else to suffer or feel their pain. Such is my opinion, but the facts sure seem to support it, sir.

Ironically you help to prove my point, Mr. Snave. I do think Obama is evil. I think he is evil because of his intentional infringement on our constitutional rights while full well knowing that he is doing so, even if he won’t publically admit it or will try to justify it for some greater altruistic reason. It is again my opinion that his extreme stance on abortion is very evil as it is far more extreme than even the typical pro-choice advocates. I realize that “evil” is a highly charged word and in this morally relativistic society in which we now live, it seems inappropriate and over the top. Restricting codified and natural liberties and being hyper-pro-abortion warrants the term though. Most folks from my parents’ generation on back would absolutely agree with me. It is only now today where these things are seen as being a grey area at worst. I understand the other side of the story and why these things are often done, and I fully reject them and will call a spade, a spade accordingly. Obama being a piece of human debris is exactly that. Calling out the truth, sir.

Cliff, we are terrified because not only our are essential liberties being curtailed, but they are being done so with the blessing and/or ignorance of many on the left. That is sad and scary. There will come a point at which no more of it will be tolerated. What that portends should scare everyone, if our elected officials don't start living up to their oaths to faithfully support and defend the constitution as they swore to do.

clif said...

we are terrified because not only our are essential liberties being curtailed,

Hell they have been curtailed by the military industrial police state since the 60's.

The largest curtailment was at the hands of republicans who pushed through many many bad laws after Bush ignored the threats from Bin Laden in the summer of 2001 and the right wing over reached in the 2001-2005 time frame.

Oh wait it is ONLY guns you are worried about, not the limits on the first placed by the right wing when Bush was CiC,

Or the slimy ways the right wing is trying to stack the deck so many voters votes are diluted so they can keep their greedy paws on the levers of power.

That not what you complain about only the fact sensible regulations about gun ownership are being suggested.

Then you get all screechy about how liberty is under attack.

Even though any laws being written or considered would take no guns away from anybody except for those who shouldn't have been granted access to guns in the first place.

Then you and your ilk get all extreme in your over the top pronouncements about how bad everything is.

Snave said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Snave said...

Sorry TP, but again, I think that is just your opinion. There wasn't much of anything factual in the part about moral relativism that I could see, just stuff from the gut, but that's OK. I'll continue to view that term as something coined by the religious right to demonize those with whom they disagree, but that's just MY opinion. 8-)

I like reading your opinions when you are doing more than repeating talking points, because it helps me to better understand what people on "the other side of the fence" think. I do think you are an absolutist, but there are times when you can be polite about it.

I still don't think a whole lot of it is necessarily right, but I can understand how people can believe some of the things they do.

But, mass shootings caused by what, a lack of God? A lack of prayer in schools? Violent atheists? (Probably not that last part at all, because there are few violent atheists). Maybe some of them commit mass murder as a reaction to all the repressive moral absolutists (i.e. the religious fanatics who want our country to look more like a theocracy than a democracy)?

Is it a reaction to fear? If so, what are they afraid of, and why are the acts necessarily something that represents a character flaw instead of a serious mental illness? Mental illness and a character flaw (being selfish) are not necessarily the same thing TP, and I believe you should be careful if you are equating the two, or if you are suggesting that a "lack of moral values" in our country is what causes chemical imbalances in people that might be what is causing some of them to become obsessive and/or commit violent acts.

That is to say, I would hope that by the extension of your logic, you aren't blaming Obama or Democrats in general for the mass shootings... or maybe for mental illness issues in America... if you are, I would have to say (in my opinion) that you are simply flat-out wrong (and as bad as left-wingers blaming Bush for everything when he was in office! 8-) ).

T. Paine said...

Snave, I would acknowledge that I tend to be an absolutist. It is my opinion that there are some things that are grey areas, but most of the world is indeed black and white. There are objective rights and wrongs. Most people today simply have chosen not to acknowledge that because it might cause a slight pang of guilt or make them feel bad because they would rather not do the more difficult right thing.

As for mass shootings, I don’t attribute that to violent atheists per se. That said, I have yet to see someone that is trying to live a sincere Christian or Jewish life being responsible for a mass killing. It is when one sees no intrinsic value to humanity, when one sees his own needs as ALWAYS trumping everyone else’s, when one only seeks to live in a material and hedonistic world, that the value of humanity become less relevant and far more morally relativistic.

You stated previously that you don’t think politics and religion should mix. I disagree, but not necessarily in the way you might think. I, and I dare say that an overwhelmingly vast majority of my fellow Christians, do not want to establish a theocratic state. That said, Western civilization has developed and been established on Judeo-Christian mores. Such has served us quite well when we actually strive to follow laws based on those morals. It is when we start hedging and saying things like “abortion is something I would never do, but it is okay if someone else believes in it” that we end up with 55 million dead unborn children forty years after the Roe v. Wade decision is rendered. It sure would be nice to have those millions of other folks contributing to our society, our tax base, and our culture. Who knows if we murdered the next Jonas Salk, Winston Churchill, Thomas Jefferson, or Wilbur Wright simply because of some morally relativistic right of a woman “to choose”.

I am not necessarily relating a lack of character or morals with having no religious underpinnings. Obviously there are many atheists and agnostics that are good and moral people. Free and yourself included. That said, much of our youth today, when given no moral foundation and direction or responsible parenting are going to look to themselves and often times the darker aspects of culture to fill that void. It is then that this darkness can sometimes result in the murder of others, when the morally deficient person does not acknowledge those lives as having any intrinsic value other than as a means to his own infamy.