Monday, December 17, 2012

The NRA is Suddenly Silent

Wow, not seeing a lot of courageous NRA folks on the cable talk shows right now. I guess they must be holed up in their bunkers eating cold beans and listening to Ted Nugent's Greatest Hits. They should be aware that every mass shooting will reduce their influence in Washington that much more from now on.
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/12/17/1343111/five-things-every-elected-official-should-know-about-the-nra/

73 comments:

clif said...

Given what I am hearing from some who formerly supported the NRA gun fetishists politically, this might be the moment when they have lost their control over the political agenda of the country.

free0352 said...

26% of Americans according to gallup support a hand gun ban.

fewer than 30% support banning rifles.

Gun sales went up this week.

So keep dreaming.

clif said...

Nobody said ANYTHING about a HANDGUN ban, or banning hunting rifles.


Assault weapons bans and high capacity magazines bans on the other hand IS what is being discussed.

Nice way to be dishonest in attempting to push right wing crap talking points to try to discredit how popular both those are with a vast majority of the American people including even a true majority of NRA membership.

The fear shows even if you won't admit it.

free0352 said...

Assault weapons bans and high capacity magazines bans on the other hand IS what is being discussed.

The "Assault Weapons Ban" was in place in 1999, and it sure didn't stop Collumbine. And REAL "Assault Weapons" were banned during the 1930s. So be happy, the law you claim to want is already in place.

The language being thrown arround is "Semi Automatic" for which the liberal code word is ASSAULT WEAPON.

As an MP, you know semi automatic is nearly every pistol sold in this country. Even the vast majority of revolvers are semi auto.

So really, its your side who is dishonest. If all you really wanted to ban were assault weapons we wouldn't be having this conversation, because they were made illegal to own or purchase almost 90 years ago.

free0352 said...

And dude, you should know

and AR-15 is a RIFLE.

clif said...

And dude, you should know

and AR-15 is a RIFLE.


Tell the WHOLE truth.

The AR-15 was first built by ArmaLite as a selective fire rifle for the United States armed forces. Because of financial problems, ArmaLite sold the AR-15 design to Colt. The select-fire AR-15 entered the US military system as the M16 rifle. Colt then marketed the Colt AR-15 as a semi-automatic version of the M16 rifle for civilian sales in 1963.

The AR-15 is the civilian version of the military M-16, the major difference is the removal of the ability for the weapon to shoot fully automatic.

Same ammo, Same magazine, same interchangeable parts, and can be converted into a replication of the exact firing ability of the M-16 by including the parts that allows 3 round bursts and automatic fire.

These are the parts you need to change for the weapon to have the capability of the m-16;

1. M16 Auto bolt carrier
2. M16 disconnector
3. M16 selector switch
4. M16 hammer.

The only difference is the internal parts which are very easy to physically change but VERY expensive to LEGALLY change.

The parts from Bushmaster firearms costs in the neighborhood of $500;

The paper you need to legally purchase and install the parts runs in the neighborhood of $15,000.

Nice way to be disingenuous about the words you use.

Is is the very definition of an assault rifle, which is a civilianized version of the military weapon.

clif said...

Your screeching about assault weapons is totally dishonest, because assault weapons like the Ar-15 and it's variants or the Ak-47 and it's variants... ETC did NOT exist in the 1930's, so your first statement is FALSE historically.

Just as false as the claims of others that the founders would ban or allow civilians to own fully automatic machine guns cannot be true because the weapon did NOT exist.

A pistol is not a assault weapon, by definition, which is the term I used.

So as usual your either being very disingenuous or dishonest.

S.W. Anderson said...

With several large-capacity clips in hand, and where a shooter is not in a firefight with the opposition using fully automatic weapons, the distinction of semiauto vs. fully auto is more academic than practical. An AR-15 is very much a combat weapon designed for killing human beings efficiently at short and medium range. It's not best suited for target shooting or hunting. It's a highly effective people-killing weapon that offers significant advantages to someone battling, say, police armed with Glocks or Berettas.

When the targets are unarmed teachers and small children, an AR-15 is just the thing to get the messy business over with quickly. As Adam Lanza proved.

S.W. Anderson said...

Re: the NRA's silence. It's only a matter of time before the money comes rolling in to NRA HQ. Wayne LaPierre is probably ecstatic at the prospect of Sen. Feinstein's proposed legislation. Things have been tough for LaPierre and the NRA the past several years, but a bonanza ia in the offing now. Make no mistake, LaPierre gets a very nice cut of the take. Always has, always will.

free0352 said...

Thats funny, because i target shoot with mt ar weekly. Ever heard of nra three gun?

As for converting an ar to select fire, you forget to mention that violates many federal laws, and the manufacturer of the parts wont sell them to anyone but the government or a licensed gun dealer.

Oh, and talk about being dishonest. As you partially pointed out to convert to select fire on an ar you have to replace the entire bolt carrier group, the selector, and the trigger housing group. You know, most of the moving parts inside the lower and upper reciever. Its like saying a Nascar is just like something off the show room floor when the truth is under the hood they are nothing alike at all. And caliber? Did you really just say that? .223 is one of the smallest rifle calibers. Its so small most states wont let you deer hunt with it. However its just the ticket for ranch work like coyote hunting. It isa great self defense tool, and that is the point if the second amendment. The amendment has nothing to do with sports or hunting. You dont have a right to hunt, you DO have a right to keep and bear arms. And the founders had military arms IN MIND when they wrote it. What part if "Shall not be infringed" do you not understand.

free0352 said...

Trurh is, crimimals dont care about laws. You dont see active shooters attacking Shot Show or even a biker bar do you? They choose "self defense free zones" like schools for a reason. All your stupid law does is disarm law abiding citizens punishing them for the crimes of a small few. And i dont care what weapon a criminal tries to attack me with. I dont care if its a baseball bat, im not interested in a fair fight with him. I want to massively outgun an attacker. How the hell do i take a key hole shot with a shotgun and not hit the hostage. You need an ar for that job.

clif said...

As for converting an ar to select fire, you forget to mention that violates many federal laws, and the manufacturer of the parts wont sell them to anyone but the government or a licensed gun dealer.

YO dippy shi-ite


hense the following quote verbatim from my post.

"The paper you need to legally purchase and install the parts runs in the neighborhood of $15,000."

being the documents you get from the US government to allow you to legally own a machine gun.

Nice to see your reading comprehension skill set is still below that of a third grader.

clif said...

Oh, and talk about being dishonest. As you partially pointed out to convert to select fire on an ar you have to replace the entire bolt carrier group, the selector, and the trigger housing group. You know, most of the moving parts inside the lower and upper reciever.

What I said;

"These are the parts you need to change for the weapon to have the capability of the m-16;

1. M16 Auto bolt carrier
2. M16 disconnector
3. M16 selector switch
4. M16 hammer."

No dishonesty at all skippy.

But your claims of my dishonesty are disingenuous at best.

clif said...

And caliber? Did you really just say that?

I did NOT use the word caliber in my post any where.

Nice showing of your lack of basic grade school reading comprehension,

Oh wait is wasn't that your setting up a straw man argument to try to make a right wing talking point.

Quite dishonest of you there skippy.

free0352 said...

No dishonesty at all skippy.

Oh good, then you admit the internal working parts of an M-16 and an AR-15 are entirely different. Honest there. Where you were dishonest was when you presented those facts as only minor differences. That difference isn't minor at all. I'd say how the rifle looks on the outside is irrelevant and the actual moving parts on the inside are what counts.

As for caliber, in fairness that was Anderson. But you can't cop out by crying talking point. The fact is the AR-15 is a wonderful tool for home defense. Maybe the perfect tool for that job. As I teach my students, a handgun is only good for fighting your way to a rifle. Bottom line, you would deny law abiding citizens that perfect tool for no meaningful gain. Collumbine happened during the assault weapon years, those laws are a joke. Outlawing so-called and missnamed "assault weapons" simply means law abiding citizens will have to go up against criminals so armed with what? 6 shot revolvers? Yeah, that will turn out just great.

Stop trying to punish law abiding citizens for the crimes of criminals.










free0352 said...

Things have been tough for LaPierre and the NRA the past several years, but a bonanza in the offing now. Make no mistake, LaPierre gets a very nice cut of the take. Always has, always will.

Man I hope so. I know this latest push had me renewing my membership early. The NRA is the single most effective entity for the defense of gun rights, and I'm more than happy to pay up. If you folks want to get rid of the NRA, stop trying to ban our guns, their parts, and their ammunition. It would be over in a second because we wouldn't need them anymore. But since you anti-gun hoplophobes are out there, we need a strong voice in Washington, and the NRA accomplishes the missions we set for it. Its the best lobbying group in America, and I'm a very proud member.

clif said...

Oh good, then you admit the internal working parts of an M-16 and an AR-15 are entirely different

No shi-ite sherlock,

remember I said;

These are the parts you need to change for the weapon to have the capability of the m-16;

1. M16 Auto bolt carrier
2. M16 disconnector
3. M16 selector switch
4. M16 hammer.


I know I am dealing with a person who for some reason cannot comprehend that by saying to CHANGE the PARTS, to make one weapon work like a different weapon works, it means they are different.

Maybe that is hard on you mental facilities to compute, but that is what it does mean

But you can't cop out by crying talking point.

Yes I can cause your entire screeching talking point is a weapon with an effective range of 400–600 meters is a great weapon to fire from inside your home to defend it.

BULLSHIT, total unmitigated bullshit.

Shooting such a weapon in any urban or sub development is insane. Maybe not to an insane gun fetishist, but to a normal human being that is insane. cause in the heat of the moment very few people hit their mark with every round fired, and nobody would want to be directly downrange of such an incident as you insanely propose.

Your entire stitch is selfish self centered extreme right wing pro gun fetishists talking points. It is all about YOUR rights to do as YOU please, and nobody else's rights are considered.

But here is a small piece of advice.

The American people are no longer gonna give your right to keep and bear arms above a parents right to bare and keep their children.

The second amendment is no more sacrosanct then the first, which many many times has had restrictions laid upon it.

Don't think so, just remember the right wings joy at the Bush admin pushing people into fenced in areas which they claimed were "free speech zones".

None of the amendments of the US constitution are absolute.

They are subject to regulation, even if you personally don't like it.

Change is a comin' get used to it.

Talking points or what ever crap you want to try to justify it with, change is a comin'.

clif said...

Just as the 1988 Carrollton, Kentucky bus collision, where a drunk drove the wrong way on I 71 head-on into a bus load of school children, was the catalyst which galvanizes the public to force the politicians to change the DWI laws.

The mass murder of 20 school children is gonna be the catalyst which galvanizes the public to force the politicians to sanity back to the countries gun laws.

The times are a-changin'.

clif said...

BTW the NRA has done such a great job,

Gun ownership has fallen from it's peak in 1977 (54 percent) of American households to today 32.3 percent of American households reporting having any guns in the home.

I guess the American people by their individual choices don't buy your extreme right wing bully shi-ite, eh skippy?

clif said...

Oh wait that was just the MEN;

Female gun ownership peaked in 1982 at 14.3 percent. In 2010 the female personal gun ownership rate was 9.9 percent.

I guess you clowns at the NRA really impress the ladies ...

NOT

:^)

free0352 said...

saying to CHANGE the PARTS, to make one weapon work like a different weapon works, it means they are different.

Right you are. An AR-15 is nothing like a military style assault rifle. You freely admit you have to change out most of the parts to do that, that it costs many thousands of dollars and a very tough background check to be licensed to even buy the required parts, that it is illegal to sell those parts to someone without an FFL, that it is 20 year felony to convert an AR-15 and sell it to someone without a class three FFL, and that it takes a person at least certified as an armorer and likely a gunsmith to accomplish a conversion - skills that take a great deal of money and time to learn and in most states require further licensing.

In short, and AR-15 is nothing like an assault rife other than a passing visual similarity.

Yes I can cause your entire screeching talking point is a weapon with an effective range of 400–600 meters is a great weapon to fire from inside your home to defend it.

Yes, it is. It is the best home defense tool out there because it is so accurate. A long gun is always better than a pistol. A shotgun is a bad choice. Likely loaded with buckshot, if a home invader has my wife or child in a hostage hold, and I have to take a hostage shot or a key hole shot, I will blow the hostage's head off using buck shot, and a slug is too inconsistent to safely take a shot like that at any range. A pistol is a poor compromise, as when a family member's life is on the line I want the most accuracy I can get to ensure I don't shoot a loved one in the head on accident. A semi automatic rifle is THE tool for that job, and the AR-15 is the best semi automatic rifle available today. That is why its the best selling rifle type in America.

Maybe not to an insane gun fetishist, but to a normal human being that is insane. cause in the heat of the moment very few people hit their mark with every round fired

Don't put your poor marksmanship on everyone else. Thats your problem, and millions of law abiding gun owners need not be punished because you can't make a 7 yard hit with a rifle.

free0352 said...

The American people are no longer gonna give your right to keep and bear arms above a parents right to bare and keep their children

The American people do not have a choice, save a Constitutional Amendment. Good luck with that one.

The second amendment is no more sacrosanct then the first, which many many times has had restrictions laid upon it.

Yes it is, its a right enshrined by the Constitution, the highest law in the land. What part of "Shall not be infringed" do you not understand?

Gun ownership has fallen from it's peak in 1977

Funny, we have more gun manufacturers today than ever before, and they can't keep up with demand. Ammunition prices are through the roof because of huge demand. Americans own 50% of the guns on Earth. That is a true statistic. 54% of men own a gun, and the percentage of female gun owners is rising rapidly. I teach CCW classes as part of my living as a fire arms instructor, and I'm hear to tell you just on my level most of my classes are 60% women, who are first time gun owners.

As for defeating the 2nd Amendment, it isn't going to happen. You're barely getting a bump in anti-gun polls right now, but that will fade as people come to their senses and stop thinking with that thing behind their sternum and start thinking with that thing between their ears. In fact, that might have already started as gun sales are spiking
in the wake of the shooting. That spike is purely driven by this latest round of anti-gun crisis advantage wrangling. And its a spike on top of a spike, because every gun store and gun manufacturer should have a picture of Barack Obama over the counter. He's the best gun salesman in America. Right now there are 18 month wait times for some premium AR-15 manufacturers like LMT, BCM and LWRC. Companies like Bushmaster and DPMS can barely keep up with orders. In fact the only manufacturing sector in this country that is growing today in this country is the gun industry.

Good luck.

T. Paine said...

Yep, Jim, I think disarming all citizens will solve the God damned problem. Then we can ALL be targets.

What happens when you are at a restaraunt with your family and some jack-wagon comes in the door and starts shooting up the place because he decided not to turn in his gun when it was banned? I guess you could try and protect your family with a table knife, huh?

Give me a break. Making everyone targets is not the freaking answer!

clif said...

An AR-15 is nothing like a military style assault rifle.

LIAR

clif said...

that it costs many thousands of dollars

LIAR;

less then $1000

clif said...

AR-15 is nothing like an assault rife other than a passing visual similarity.

LIAR

The AR-15 was first built by ArmaLite as a selective fire rifle for the United States armed forces.

It is a fact, that you dishonestly try to deny.

But lying ain't gonna get ya nowhere skippy.

clif said...

As for defeating the 2nd Amendment, it isn't going to happen.

NEVER said that you lie when you claim I did.

It is about adapting the US Constitution and all it's amendments to the 21st century, like congress and the supreme Courts have adapted it many times for many reasons.

free0352 said...

The American people are no longer gonna give your right to keep and bear arms above a parents right to bare and keep their children

There are more than a few children alive because of lawful gun ownership,

Like this kid

Or this one.

clif said...

Don't put your poor marksmanship on everyone else.

ALWAYS shot expert, skippy


the rest of your screeching is just more right wing gun fetish babble.

clif said...

I think disarming all citizens will solve the God damned problem.

Never said that either, you right wing clowns LOVE to try to put words in others mouths eh.

cause with out your straw man arguments

you got nada.

free0352 said...

like congress and the supreme Courts have adapted it many times for many reasons.

Last I checked the Supreme Court and the federal courts have been shutting the anti-gun groups down, just like Illinois just lost its latest case to ban concealed carry in their state. Thats because you are correct, the law has been crafted for the 21st century and the Courts have ruled the 2nd Amendment has nothing to do with hunting or target shooting but is purely about self defense and a deterrent to would be dictators. And the best tool for self defense that can be owned is an AR-15 and a semi automatic handgun.

free0352 said...

ALWAYS shot expert, skippy

The Army qualification is easy. Everyone of my AR Level II students can do that. Thats not worth bragging about killer.

clif said...

Child Clinging to Life After Weekend Shooting

Pregnant Woman Shot By Husband As Child Watches,

Shooting on Denver injures two, including one child

Child dies from self-inflicted gunshot wound

Child Dies from Gunshot Wound

clif said...

The Army qualification is easy. Everyone of my AR Level II students can do that. Thats not worth bragging about killer.

Try hitting a baseball at 125 meters.

I can

clif said...

Part of my job in the US army in the late 80's early 90's.

clif said...

Last I checked the Supreme Court and the federal courts have been shutting the anti-gun groups down,

Wait till President Obama (Or Hillary after him) gets to replace Scalia, or Thomas, then we'll see if their extreme right wing views still prevail.

clif said...

In fact the only manufacturing sector in this country that is growing today in this country is the gun industry.

Partly cause old white dudes have to own 20-50-100 guns, trust me I know a few.

But a smaller segment of the population is buying more and more of the guns.

For me 4 was enough.

clif said...

Keep dreaming the nation isn't fed up and you'll wake up as surprised as the drunks when the laws changed.

free0352 said...

Yeah, I'm so sure this House of Representatives is going to pass that bill. I'm so sure the slim margin the Democrats hold in the Senate are going to commit political suicide and pass that. Last time Democrats passed the Brady Bill, they lost so many elections they didn't recover for 12 years. And they remember that. A few fools in liberal districts never learn or don't care, but every politician remotely close to a swing state probably doesn't want to flush his political career down the toilet of gun control.

clif said...

Keep dreamin' those right wing dreams.

You guys are losing power not gaining it.

Especially at the federal level.

clif said...

With out gerrymandering the GOper right wing crowd would have lost the house this time, even with all the Koch and Rove money being thrown around.

That was BEFORE Dec 14 2012 happened.

clif said...

Just as 9-11 changed how Americans dealt with foreign terrorists;

14-12-12 will change how Americans deal with insane gun fetishes.

clif said...

Remember Mayor Bloomberg defeated a gun nut from California ...... by financing his opponent.

Joe Baca can no longer do the NRA's bidding in congress.

clif said...

New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg spent upwards of $9 million of his own money in the final ten days of the 2012 campaign in support of candidates who shared his views on gun control and political moderation.

“This is just the beginning,” promised Howard Wolfson, a top aide to Bloomberg who ran the Independence USA PAC, a super PAC through which Bloomberg doled out some of his fortune in the final days of the 2012 campaign. “On issues like guns and education, Mike Bloomberg is poised to play an even bigger role in advancing a mainstream agenda and influencing elections.”


BTW he's got BILLIONS ........

free0352 said...

Bloomberg can play his games. That fucking nanny state'er is the worst paternalistic prick ever. Thank God he wasn't mayor when I lived in NYC.

Either way, Republicans hate him, and they own the House.

So good luck.

clif said...

They won't always "own" the house.

The lost seats this year, and probably will lose more in the future as the demographics move against their 18th cen ideology, and reliance on old white dudes as their base.

clif said...

Republicans hate him

The pubies seem to hate lots of people these days.

Might be why more and more people won't vote for them.

jim marquis said...

TP- don't put words in my mouth. I never said anything about completly disarming people. I'd just like to see some reasonable prohibition of weapons that can gun down an entire grade school class in two minutes.

free0352 said...

I love it how a guy who has never been near a combat zone for one day of his life is going to tell ME, a guy with over 700 combat days, 3 years in law enforcement, and who is a certified master fire arms instructor, CSAT instructor, and sniper what I need to defend myself. Go play down on the Mexican boarder where ranchers have to slug it out with drug cartel guys ever so often who are armed WITH REAL military style assault weapons. Go tell them they should trade in their AR-15s for some dinky bolt action bullshit to defend their families from people with access to belt fed weapons and rocket propelled grenades. Jim, no offense man, but I bet you wouldn't have the balls to even go down there to be honest. And yet you'd tell a person who LIVES THERE what tools they get to have to protect their families from drug and human smuggling cartels, many of whose members used to belong to the Mexican Special Forces.

Nice dude.

clif said...

Wha wha wha,

Typical right wing whiner.

clif said...

Nice to see only your views count as usual.

jim marquis said...

What Clif said.

free0352 said...

Jim has never been in a fire fight. Its hard for me to take self defense tips from someone who has never been in a fire fight.

So you were an MP huh? Where and when did you deploy?

clif said...

Never said I was an MP, skippy, said DURING ROTC, I was in the National Guard Unit as an SMP and received MP training.

Still stuck on stupid in reading comprehension I see.

My personal history is none of your god damned business because I have seen how right wing nutzoids use it.

But trust me I was in the desert long before you were, and stood a post in Europe when you were probably shitting in diapers, and the USSR was still the enemy.

clif said...

Jim has never been in a fire fight. Its hard for me to take self defense tips from someone who has never been in a fire fight.

Not about that skippy,

It's about his first amendment rights being just as valid and important as your second amendemnt rights.

Something you wing nut gun fetishists never think about at all.

free0352 said...

I mean really, you guys presumably live in safe, probably all white, cushy places and from your little white towers you are going to tell the rest of us how to live. Go down to East Detroit and tell the people who live in neighborhoods where police won't even go anymore if you call them no matter what, go tell them the 17 round clip in their glock 17 is too high capacity. That they don't need that many rounds to defend themselves from the AK-47 packing roving gangs. Gangs who don't buy their guns from gun stores, but from Russian mob dudes who smuggle them in from Africa. Guys who could care less about a gun ban because its already illegal for them to have much more than a pop gun because they are convicted felons. Tell the mother just trying to get home from work she doesn't need those rounds when she returns from work on 2nd shift in the car jacking capital of America. The rape capital of America. Go ahead. See how it goes over.

free0352 said...

It's about his first amendment rights being just as valid and important as your second amendemnt rights.

I care a lot about all the amendments, all of them equally. But having the freedom to say something doesn't mean I have the duty to take it seriously. Sorry dude, but if you haven't been in a gunfight, I'm here to tell you... I'm not going to take that person seriously when they try to tell me about gunfights when frankly I don't even remember how many I've been in.

clif said...

I mean really, you guys presumably live in safe, probably all white, cushy places

Not quite, but keep projecting your fictional straw man arguments.

clif said...

Gangs who don't buy their guns from gun stores, but from Russian mob dudes who smuggle them in from Africa.

BULLSHIT.

Gangs get many many guns from multiple sources just like the Mexican Drug Gangs were making large purchases in the USA remember the right wing outrage over the "fast and furious"????

The one the Bush DOJ started.

... and many guns on the streets of Chicago came from certain sources in central KY, I know cause I knew the ATF agents who busted them.

I served with him in the desert before the bust.

Yer so full of half truths and out right lies, it is incredible you actually believe we could swallow them.

Also with my Army job involved with a few gun runner busts when military ammo was found.

Funny about them, lots of guns some military, no Russians around at all.

free0352 said...

BULLSHIT

Oh really. I gotta wonder, where are those mexican gangs getting the hand grenades and rocket propelled grenades they've been using south of the boarder? I'm pretty sure those aren't for sale at Cabelas. Oh, and aren't those Russian made? Oh, wait, what do I know. Those must have been smuggled in by Glen Beck or something... Its all a magical coincidence Russian rockets and hand grenades somehow made their way from Russia to Mexico. Who knew?

You were an MP? Did you catch many bad guys?

just like the Mexican Drug Gangs were making large purchases in the USA

Yes, from the ATF, and they got busted by gun store owners. Next.

I know cause I knew the ATF agents who busted them.

So what this person did was a crime, and yet that didn't stop him from doing it anyway. Thats amazing. I guess the only people who follow that law, are by nature law abiding citizens huh? Strange. I wonder, if AK variant carbines are banned, will criminals pay attention to the law? Hmmmm, I'm not sure. Well, I'm sure most law abiding citizens will. Which means only criminals will have those weapons and citizens will be outgunned by criminals... hay... wait a minute!

Yer so full of half truths and out right lies, it is incredible you actually believe we could swallow them.

I know, my life is so hard to believe. I was an active duty US Marine for 4 years, joined the USMC Reserves, became a cop, was on a part time Sheriff's tactical team, got sick of law enforcement because it really wasn't for me, enlisted in the Army to go to Delta, didn't make selection, ended up in an Army Infantry Battalion. Got some cool guy certifications, and now I teach combat shooting.

Craziest thing ever. Like never happened before. Oh wait, its happened like 54000000 times. But hey, Jim hear is a cyber buddy and is pretty plugged into my life via facebook, and we've been blog dudes for about... holy shit seven years now. I'm sure he can fill you in.








clif said...

Little do you know, Russian munitions are cloned all over the planet. Could be North Korean, Vietnamese, Chinese, Eastern Europe etc.

And yes some of gun shops made quiet a but of money selling guns to drug gangs.
spent time in the US Army Engineers, was in Panama when the Canal Treaty was being hashed out, Time in Europe, got out when to college got a commission, and did much more interesting things after that including time in the Desert.

14 years service when I was disabled.

clif said...

BTW many of the people who smuggle drugs in this country smuggle guns out as payment, including guns and ammo etc they get else where.

Heck ATF and the FBI just took down the Outlaws and Mexican drug gangs working together in Indianapolis and other places in Indiana this summer.

clif said...

The Outlaws like the Hells Angels have branches all over the world including Russia Germany England Australia, they make money smuggling things like drugs and guns.

free0352 said...

Little do you know, Russian munitions are cloned all over the planet. Could be North Korean, Vietnamese, Chinese, Eastern Europe etc.

Very likely, but the case I'm familiar with, the serial numbers were traced to Russia. But I'll agree with you that many countries produce illegal weapons and are very good at smuggling them into North America. And our southern boarder isn't exactly a model of security.

BTW many of the people who smuggle drugs in this country smuggle guns out as payment, including guns and ammo etc they get else where.

Heck ATF and the FBI just took down the Outlaws and Mexican drug gangs working together in Indianapolis and other places in Indiana this summer


So you're saying there is already a network in place for criminals to smuggle illegal weapons. No kidding. Who knew.

I wonder what law abiding citizens will do when the bad guys have AKs and the citizens have... well whatever it is you hoplohobes leave them with. Slingshots maybe? Perhaps spit balls.

clif said...

Incredible you think only if everyone is always gun ready can they be safe, but I haven't carried a gun since I left the Desert a long time ago, and never needed it.

clif said...

BTW just because they were made in the USSR/Russia, doesn't mean Russians had anything to do with their getting to Mexico.

free0352 said...

but I haven't carried a gun since I left the Desert a long time ago, and never needed it.

I definitely encourage you to test this theory along the El Paso countryside.

As for me... and since you're a skeptic you can ask Jim here, just two months ago three home boys tried to car jack me.

I was nice, I let them live. One definitely pissed his pants though.

free0352 said...

doesn't mean Russians had anything to do with their getting to Mexico.

Well, the FBI seemed to think so but hey, I guess they might be wrong.

Either way, they got here to North America just fine.

clif said...

I definitely encourage you to test this theory along the El Paso countryside.

sorry skippy I do not go looking for trouble;

so why would I want to take your dumb assed advice and make such a stupid move like that?

Gee your incredibly deluded if you think I would.

free0352 said...

sorry skippy I do not go looking for trouble;

Yes, but some live there, and since you are in no danger you can hide far, far away and tell those who are how to defend themselves. I'll support a gun ban when this President disbands the secret service. I'll assume when he no longer needs guns, neither will I.

clif said...

Funny the cry babies in the NRA always put themselves first above the country and the people.

Too bad this time you cannot win.

Far too many people in this country want sanity in the laws around guns, and when the MAJORITY decides to call for sanity, it happens.

BTW don't hold yer breath about the supremes keeping yer fetishes intact legally.

Cause by the time a law is passed and get up to it's level, most likely one or even possible two supremes will be handing over their seats to nominees from either President Obama or President Hillary ..................... enjoy.

The times, they ARE a-changin'

free0352 said...

and when the MAJORITY decides to call for sanity, it happens.

Well, you'll need a 2/3 majority and ratification by the states.

Good luck.

clif said...

Well, you'll need a 2/3 majority and ratification by the states.

Hardly .......

Just control over the White House for the next 8 years ......