Tuesday, December 18, 2012

Definitions and Death

One thing the pro-gun folks need to understand is that the rest of us don't really care all that much about the difference between automatic and semi-automatic weapons. All we care about is what size clip will work with the weapon and how fast it will fire the bullets in that clip.

32 comments:

free0352 said...

The AK47 is not manufactured in America, it is made in Russia, Vietnam, Cambodia, China, Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Latvia and a thousand other former soviet states, Israel, Egypt, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan.

The networks to smuggle these weapons are already in place in this country thanks to the drug war.

Of course, because god forbid Americans be allowed an effective tool of self defense against those who would wield weapons far worse than those sold in gun stores. You think it better to punish en'mass law abiding citizens for the crimes of others leaving them with little means of defense against criminals and terrorists. If police could defend us, none of these shootings would have ever occurred and there would be no home invasion, car jackings, riots, looting, or crime. We cannot and will not surrender our right to self defense or the tools for that defense. The law will not allow it and if this President breaks that law he will have to kill many thousands of us to enforce such a perverted will. We will not roll over, we will not just let it be.

These are the kinds of things that start civil wars you damned fools. My question is, how many thousands of people are you willing to kill to break the law and rob us of our rights?

free0352 said...

As I said in another post, I'll be happy to give up the 2nd Amendment just as soon as Barack Obama disbands the secret service. I guess when he no longer needs guns, neither will I.

free0352 said...

Oh, and I'm getting the feeling we're taking advantage of this crisis not because of "The Children" which is always the excuse, but to break the NRA for purely political reasons.

Things like this blow up in people's faces. Its gonna get REAL ugly. It makes me a lot more sad than a school shooting. I don't want to see a country I fought so hard for torn apart because of partisan politics.

clif said...

Still whining I see.

free0352 said...

If you want to call the noise I make over government trying to strip away a fundamental right, then yes.

jim marquis said...

The last thing Obama wants to deal with is anything that's even close to gun control. But when a huge chunk of the country's population is crying out for some kind of action to be taken, what else can he do?

free0352 said...

The last thing Obama wants to deal with is anything that's even close to gun control.

Bullshit. We told you he was waiting till his second term, and first chance he got he'd make his move.

And here it is, a crisis he won't let go to waste.

But the Republicans still control the house and we still have quite a few Democrats. I don't think we'll lose this one. Least I hope not. Because I'd have to rejoin the Republican Party, and give my last dollar to stop this. And I'd gladly give my last dollar, sell all my stuff and give that too, because its cheaper.

You see, if by some insane chance Fienstein's bill were to make it through as is to Obama's desk and the SCOTUS didn't bail us out, I'd have to give my life. And if it comes to that, I would. The Fienstien bill has provisions against sale, transfer and grandfathering, and I will never turn in even one of my guns. NEVER. I will never melt down or turn in any of its parts, to include its magazines. The day they pass that law is the day I become a revolutionary. And I don't think we'd win. But I do think we'd fight anyway. Thousands of us would. And thousands of us would die, or be tried and convicted which makes dying seem a bit more of an option.

Quite a lot of lives to throw away to take away a freedom.

clif said...

You see, if by some insane chance Fienstein's bill were to make it through

If congress does it's job and creates a law.

as is to Obama's desk

Meaning he signs it.

In other words;

If the United States Constitution is followed .......

and the SCOTUS didn't bail us out,

and the United States Supreme Court finds it constitutional

I'd have to give my life. And if it comes to that, I would.


TRAITOR

Not much difference, BTW the oath for service does mention domestic enemies, thanks for clarifying YOU are one.

clif said...

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.
The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.


Your juvenile screeching does constitute treason by definition if carried out physically.

clif said...

United States Code at 18 U.S.C. § 2381

whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

That is the law your stated treasonous activity would violate.

free0352 said...

Call me what you will. I wonder what King George thought of our founding fathers?

I hope it doesn't come to that sort of thing.

And I think we can count on Congress and the SCOTUS. But hoplophobes need to remember what is ultimately at stake.

As for Jim, I have a pretty long post on my facebook page on why REGULAR CAPACITY magazines are necessary for self defense. Clif, you'll just have to wonder why.

jim marquis said...

Free, I hate to say it but that story comes off sounding like something written in one of those Penthouse Letters magazines...except it's about a spontaneous opportunity to get it on with guns rather than a hot dental assistant.

clif said...

2 comments traitor,

One. I ain't British so I don't give a good god damned what he thought.

Two. I know that the most powerful organized militia even to attack the USA failed so you are doomed to do also, too bad you will kill patriotic Americans in the process.

free0352 said...

I said above I think we would lose.


We would lose.

We would lose.

We'd do it anyway.

clif said...

We'd do it anyway.

Cause you are traitors to the United States of America

You have proven that beyond all doubt.

T. Paine said...

Cliff, I try very hard to never resort to personal attacks or foul language, but you are such a fucking dumbass low-information moron, that I am enraged and cannot contain myself.

It is that piece of shit Obama and the progressives of both parties that are TRAITORS as they have failed to uphold their oaths to protect and defend the constitution. They have already insisted on curtailing basic tenets of my first amendment rights to practice my religion, and now if they go forward to restrict my owning of firearms, then it is they who should be overthrown.

As written by Thomas Jefferson in the Declaration of Independence:

“Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.” (emphasis mine)

Please tell me, Cliff, how our government restricting our natural and CONSTITUTIONAL right to keep and bear arms for our own security is not the ultimate form of despotism of which the founding fathers spoke in the founding document of our nation. It would not be Free, me, or millions of others that would be traitors. It would be ass-hats like you and those that Ben Franklin warned would be too God damned quick to “give away essential liberties for temporary safety, and thus are deserving of neither.” If you are an American than I am damned ashamed to call myself one too.

Jim, my apologies to you for my actions here, even if not for the absolute intent of every word I typed.

clif said...

Cry baby

clif said...

I am enraged and cannot contain myself.<

Typical gun nut in action there.

clif said...

PS you clowns love to pick and choose among the founding fathers statements, well here's one you never speak about;


Thomas Jefferson;

"I hope we shall crush… in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country."

You NRA is a moneyed corporation .......and fits his statement perfectly.

jim marquis said...

No problem, Paine. I'm all about free expression.

clif said...

BTW Ronald Reagan supported the assault weapons Ban in 1994 even lobbying sitting congress critters to vote for passage.

Congressman Scott Klug, a Republican from Wisconsin was an opponent of the assault weapon ban and the day before the vote stated his opposition to the ban. Klug only changed his voted after “a last minute plea from President Reagan” in the form of a handwritten note.

”Dear Scott: As a longtime gun owner and supporter of the right to bear arms, I, too, have carefully thought about this issue. I am convinced that the limitations imposed in this bill are absolutely necessary,” Reagan wrote Klug. “I know there is heavy pressure on you to go the other way, but I strongly urge you to join me in supporting this bill. It must be passed. Sincerely, Ronald Reagan.”

”I can think of no one who has been a stronger supporter of law and order and a stronger supporter of the Second Amendment,” Klug said in a statement regarding Reagan’s note announcing his support for the ban.

Another former Congressman, New Hampshire Democrat Dick Swett, also credited the former President with influencing his voting. Swett was unsure of how to vote on the ban, but made up his made after direct lobbying from Reagan.


The bill ended up passing the House by two votes, 216-214.

The two votes that allowed the bill to pass, were gotten thanks to Ronald Reagan.

clif said...

PS: Reagan also lobbied for passage of the Brady Bill.

free0352 said...

If Ronald Reagan had advocated making people shave their heads, I wouldn't like that either.

As for the NRA being the scary monster you think it is, you could be rid of it in 1 second. All you have to do liberals, is stop trying to rubber coat the world and quit taking fire arms away form people. Thats all. Overnight, its gone. Poof.

clif said...

I don't care about the NRA except they enable terrorists and crazies to buy guns.

The refuse common sense regulations on guns like we have on speech, searches of people homes cars and persons, etc.

The NRA is a money making operation for a few and enables less stable people to acquire guns when in a normal sane society they couldn't.

Sorry we wouldn't have trouble with drug gangs if we just allowed everyone who wanted to, the rights to use any drugs they wanted at any time.

See the correlation?

I bet not.

free0352 said...

Sorry we wouldn't have trouble with drug gangs if we just allowed everyone who wanted to, the rights to use any drugs they wanted at any time.

We wouldn't have trouble with the cartels and gangs here, or at least as much trouble, if we decriminalized illegal drugs. They'd still do things that we can't decriminalize like human trafficing, but in the end decriminalization of illegal drugs would drive a mighty stake into the heart of organized crime.

T. Paine said...

Jim, I appreciate the fact that you are one of the best out there to allow open expression of opinion. Although you and I seldom agree politically, you typically state your views without resorting to nastiness or ad hominem attacks. You are a good guy for a liberal. (just kidding!  )

Cliff, that said, I sincerely apologize for my calling you vulgar names. That was uncalled for and I am embarrassed accordingly. Despite that, you are still absolutely wrong and I stand by everything I said regarding content.

While Reagan was the best president I have seen in my lifetime, he was not perfect. I agree with Free; I disagree with Reagan in that one instance. As for you non-sequitur straw man argument regarding Thomas Jefferson and the NRA, well I will see your asinine quote and raise you three from our founders regarding their intentions about arms.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." - Thomas Jefferson, 1 Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

"The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” -- George Washington

"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." -- Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers at 184-188


Next, you obviously are buying into the progressive lies and propaganda regarding the NRA, Cliff. The NRA has always advocated for the legal ownership of firearms by those that are not felons or mentally ill. I think “terrorists and crazies” would fall under those categories accordingly. Far be it for progressives to debate facts though when the can resort to distortions, exaggerations, and outright lies. Hell, it got their tyrannical progressive community organizer re-elected by a nation crying for the nanny-state government to take care of them and give them more freebies. Now it wants the government to protect them by nonsensically unarming the law abiding citizens.

clif said...

T-boy, my comment about Thomas Jefferson had NOTHING to do with gun control,

It was about incorporated moneyed groups using the power of their riches to influence the political landscape in Washington, which the NRA does, so it is definitely on point even if your too stupid to realise it.

The NRA has always advocated for the legal ownership of firearms by those that are not felons or mentally ill. I think “terrorists and crazies” would fall under those categories accordingly.

Good when the fuck is the NRA gonna get off their dead asses and ask congress to close the gun show loop hole where most who legally cannot buy guns get them?????????????????????

T. Paine said...

Sometimes one runs into people that are too damned ignorant and way too damned arrogant to even debate using relevant facts. They would rather use unsupportable assertions, propaganda, outright lies, and straw man arguments.

Cliff seems to encompass all of the worst of these things combined, with the added trait of ad hominem attacks.

Free, you may be right. Cliff may be a pre-pubescent teenager; either that or "Cliff" is the screen name for David Axelrod.

clif said...

Neither T-boy

free0352 said...

Most guns uses in crimes are stolen.

The famed gun show loophole is simply a private transfer, like if pain here decides to sell me a shotgun. Knowingly selling a fire arm to a minor or felon is already illegal and punishable by 5-10 years in prison.

free0352 said...

Most guns uses in crimes are stolen.

The famed gun show loophole is simply a private transfer, like if pain here decides to sell me a shotgun. Knowingly selling a fire arm to a minor or felon is already illegal and punishable by 5-10 years in prison.

T. Paine said...

Yeah, but when have facts ever gotten in the way of progressive arguments, Free?